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Post by Gerry on Aug 27, 2014 17:29:27 GMT
There are so many versions, which one is best?
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Post by Brookhouse on Aug 27, 2014 17:59:47 GMT
In some ways the answer depends on what you want to do. Is your question about which is best for devotional reading or study?
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 27, 2014 18:01:26 GMT
For me the Authorised version takes a lot of beating but it's always good to have a paraphrase alongside.
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Post by generaljim on Aug 27, 2014 18:15:46 GMT
The problem with the AV is at times it's incomprehensible because it's so old fashioned.
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arete
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Post by arete on Aug 28, 2014 19:08:36 GMT
I often joke that I am an ESV-onlyist. I would stay away from paraphrases and pick a translation that is written for a more basic reading level. Paraphrases are necessarily imprecise. I am also not a big fan of dynamic equivalence, especially at the cost of all literal rendering
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Post by Brookhouse on Aug 28, 2014 19:15:00 GMT
Hi Arete - Brookhouse here - welcome to the site.
I really like the ESV but I also find it stimulating to read paraphrases although I often struggle to see how they make the jump to the interpretation chosen. And don't get me on 'The Message' which has poetic brilliance in places but overall as a study bible worries me.
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arete
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Post by arete on Aug 28, 2014 21:47:50 GMT
When going through Greek and Romans classes, my Romans prof was an avid NIV user (Greek prof was ESV). But the NIV prof often stopped to say, this would be better rendered this way. He always said something almost identical to the ESV. I found that to be true repeatedly as I studied.
Part of its rendering was a joint effort of translators and English/literature professors working in conjunction. So while I have not found one that caused me pause, I would think the joint effort of these two groups might be a partial explanation for any stranger renderings.
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Post by Brookhouse on Aug 29, 2014 7:17:49 GMT
As a matter of interest, what's your take on the Amplified version?
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arete
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Post by arete on Aug 29, 2014 22:03:44 GMT
It can be helpful, sort of
Its like a concordance. You can look up a word in Strong's and it lists all these ways the term is rendered, but some of them are contradictory. That's because the concordance lists terms in their lexical form. Its the root word. Like English, Hebrew and Greek have prefixes and suffixes that can affect term meaning and sometimes quite drastically. Unlike English, suffixes and prefixes are a little more common.
So, I would rather have an actual lexicon of original language and a commentary that addresses the original language than an AMP.
For folks who don't have the background in language, there are books like Mounce's Greek For the Rest of Us that can be handy to read and learn more about the word use.
Also, Vine's Expository Dictionary does a better than a concordance and is more approachable than a true lexicon.
Sorry - Looooong answer to a short question
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Post by Brookhouse on Aug 30, 2014 10:42:03 GMT
A really small couple of words (in length) but huge in terms of impact for me (and one of the reasons I tend to always like to have a copy of the KJV around) is the 5 or so places where the word 'In' in most translations is rendered 'Of' in the KJV (see my blog on Men4Jesus.Jesus.net about "In or Of".
Any thoughts from your studies Arete as to which intends more accurate (it concerns having "faith in Christ" or "the faith of Christ")?
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arete
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Post by arete on Sept 1, 2014 19:07:31 GMT
There is an ambiguity in the original texts that Western minded folks don't generally think of or appreciate. Often, instead of an either/or situation, it is a both/and situation.
Unfortunately, translations into English do not handle this ambiguity well.
Faith in Christ is necessary for salvation and I believe is a work of the Holy Spirit and does not well up within the individual. Faith of Christ sounds like an ideal, but ultimately unattainable until we are glorified and the Image of God fully restored.
Rather than the preposition alone, it would make me wonder if Christ's faith is completely analogous to ours? And what is the definition of faith? The English term implies an uncertainty to the word. Many have faith in many things.
Can we possess the same type of faith as the eternal Son? We walk by faith and not by sight, but he has seen the eternal Father and the glories of Heaven.
Thoughts to ponder and more fun than the monthly paperwork I must get done today.
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Post by Brookhouse on Sept 3, 2014 20:17:54 GMT
If Christ is truly in the believer, and He is, and in the surrender of self He is able to live His life out fully, then He would not be Christ when living His life out if He did not exercise the faith today He exercised in the days of His flesh?
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arete
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Post by arete on Sept 4, 2014 20:42:33 GMT
I'm not sure I follow.
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Post by Brookhouse on Sept 4, 2014 22:21:18 GMT
Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Christ is in me. The life He lives in me today must be the same in quality today as it was then since He does not change (note, quality not quantity - He had the Spirit without measure when it comes to quantity).
His life in me must include His love, His forgiveness, His grace, His patience and also... His faith.
The expression of Christ's life within me, and coming out of me, (all Him) must include Him exercising (when I am fully surrendered) His faith hence my point about 'the faith of Christ' as well as 'faith in Christ'.
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arete
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Post by arete on Sept 4, 2014 22:38:47 GMT
Give me some Scripture references. I want to follow your thought process from the Scriptures that describe this. I ask because usually I think of the Spirit living within me as opposed to the Son. So I want to follow your train of thought to better comprehend your point.
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Post by Brookhouse on Sept 5, 2014 5:42:39 GMT
Arete you are a true Berean! :-)
I'll try to give some thought to this over the weekend and respond as you request. Good stuff. Busy weekend coming up, prayers appreciated. Businessmen's dinner tonight with the ex Company Sec for Mont Blanc/Cartier watches and CEO of a law firm speaking, very committed to the Lord. Tomorrow morning we have our monthly Men4Jesus meeting when around 20-40 men will gather and share in a very open time together and Richard will share his testimony again.
Thanks for the dialogue, bear with me, it might be Sunday before I respond.
Prayers (from you or any other men reading this) for our meeting tomorrow would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
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arete
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Post by arete on Sept 5, 2014 18:12:59 GMT
No worries. I fully appreciate how busy things are. I have a funeral this weekend. I am prepping to have my office insulated. And we are in the midst of hunting season which many families need to get by in the inter. Add to that I am prepping for my district rep to come, a missionary to visit and a ministry retreat for my family.
So you may respond in a timely fashion and find me late in reply.
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Post by Brookhouse on Sept 12, 2014 7:11:53 GMT
A lot of my thinking Arete is around the desire to be an authentic disciple so that when I meet Him I hear Him say "enter into the joy of the Lord you good and faithful servant".
For me this centres around getting to know Jesus as my teacher (He said "Learn of Me") taking in His teachings (He said His disciples would continue in His word) and, with His help ("You can do nothing apart from a Me") living them out.
As a matter of interest I'm doing a terrible job at mixing conversations on different threads on this site but I comfort myself with the thought that it's early days on this community, I'm learning and God (and my Christian brothers) are forgiving :-)
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Post by builderunlimited on Oct 7, 2014 16:50:53 GMT
Getting back to versions of the Bible for a moment, does anyone else have problems with the American version of the NIV? I keep trying to source a new copy since giving my old, much loved Hodder & Stoughton one to a work colleague recently and it seems the only ones available are written in American text. Nothing against Americans, but I find the use of words like "vault" instead of "expanse", in Genesis 1 and "rooster" instead of "cockerel" grate on me somewhat. Hope this doesn't make me sound like a snob or a racist...
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arete
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Post by arete on Oct 8, 2014 23:33:45 GMT
Several versions of the NIV exist in the US. Some are better than others. I am not familiar enough though to comment on which ones are best. But there are even versions that go gender neutral to the point of being problematic.
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colly
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Post by colly on Oct 22, 2014 19:05:11 GMT
I have tried many versions of the bible, and the versions I now use are the NIV, and CEV (Contemporary English Version) I alternate between the two, as I think these are the versions I understand best. And I think using the versions you understand, is more beneficial than versions you struggle with. Referring to Brookhouse's definition of "The faith of Christ," and "Faith in Christ." I believe that I must have "Faith in Christ," (John 3:16, Mark 16:15-16.) before I can think about the "Faith of Christ."
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